Sam Harris — neuroscientist, atheist, and popular writer — debates, discusses, and explores the relationship between Islam, Islamism, and jihadism, with Maajid Mawaz — an Islamist-radical-turned-Muslim-reformer and human rights advocate.
Sam begins by casting serious doubts on the possibility for Islam to be reformed, asserting that martyrdom and paradise, not to mention misogyny, are core and inarguable elements of the religion. Maajid counters that texts do not speak for themselves; rather, people speak for them, and that the doctrines of martyrdom, paradise, and the like, popularized by Islamists (Muslims who want to impose their understanding of Islam on others) and jihadists (those who want to wage holy war, replete with beheadings, mass rape, and sex slaves) are merely one of many possible interpretations. For Maajid, the path to transforming Islam into a true religion of peace and a force for secularism (understood as a separation of religion and state), pluralism, and human rights begins with a Muslim grassroots movement that popularizes the idea that all reading of scripture is interpretive and open to differing perspectives.
This dialogue is fascinating. Sam is more or less unrelenting in his skepticism, and the dialogue is all the richer for it. If you are worried about the role of Islamists and jihadists in the world, and the horror and suffering they inflict, and you would like to seriously grapple with what it will take to rid the world of the murderous religious ideology behind them, then this dialogue is a fantastic place to start.